Redmine

*** Eric Davis added Shane Pearlman, zanuda13 ***

Eric Davis: Hello everyone

Shane Pearlman: hey eric

zanuda13: hello

SikhNerd: Howdy

Eric Davis: Shane: I don't see Peter online, will he be coming too?

Shane Pearlman: don't think so

*** Eric Davis has changed the conversation topic to "Redmine UI/UX meetup" ***

Shane Pearlman: eric- you handling the conference call or do you want me to?

zanuda13: are we expecting someone else to join us?

Shane Pearlman: Goal: The goal is to establish the purview of the UX working group. What is our scope / not in our scope. How can we be of most help and value to the community and product?

Shane Pearlman: To start off: Who are you? what is your background? what do you want to contribute? what is your vision?

Shane Pearlman: Eric Davis - core developer. support ux group so that our suggestions get implement

Eric Davis: http://www.pmphq.com/

Shane Pearlman: Igor - run dev company, does dev for customers on redmine, would like it to be easier to use.

zanuda13: Shane one correction we do provide hosting redmine service not redmine development :)

zanuda13: thanks Eric for the link

Eric Davis: Shane - partner of a freelance team, member of the Wordpress dev community, worked with Eric on one of the largest Redmine theme and has some good feedback based on that development.

SikhNerd: Muntek Singh, support ux group through documentation, and anything else I can provide. I'm working on Yet Another redmine commercial offering, and I just use redmine a lot and love it for my many internal projects. I'm a project manager for most projects I'm involved in and a big support of OSS

SikhNerd: close enough :)

Shane Pearlman: General Goal? Purview - what should we affect and what is outside our scope?

Eric Davis: Shane - have Redmine be a powerful yet simple to use tool.  Balancing power and ease of use.

SikhNerd: I'm generally more end-user focused, and would really like to see redmine become easier to *use* I have no problem with redmine being drupal-like in that it might need an admin to setup/configure. But at the end of the day I agree with igor and redmine needs a more consistant UX and needs to be more intuitive.

Eric Davis: Igor - focus more on the end user UX than the admin UX.

SikhNerd: So the question is, does the UX team focus on both equally, or more end-user (My vote is end-user)

SikhNerd: Correct, end-users not coming to r.o

on forums is People setting up and configuration.

SikhNerd: We do however see a larger number of end-users in IRC

SikhNerd: agreed

Eric Davis: Eric - more admins but could be selection bias (IT admins with quesions vs end users)

SikhNerd: Adding a "webchat" to r.o will help that alot- something like http://webchat.freenode.net/

Shane Pearlman: User Research?

SikhNerd: Shane - Yeah, my larget redmine install has about the same 100 user - VAST majority don't find the filters, etc that we consider basic, but is beyond them

SikhNerd: I think part of this is because we don't have a ton of end-user documentation. For instance - where would a regular end-user find out about the right-click context menu on Issue list? Other than by accident - vast majority don't know about it.

Eric Davis: Shane - user level survey to figure out what issues users run into.

Eric Davis: SikhNerd: in the code, duh! :)

Eric Davis: Shane - "survery" inside the help section

SikhNerd: So we still haven't answered the initial question - What is the overal focus and purview of the UX Team?

Shane Pearlman: =)

Shane Pearlman: yup

SikhNerd: But a lot of those admins are searching for answers for their users

Shane Pearlman: sorry for the tangent

SikhNerd: I think some analysis of the feature requests on r.o is neccessary as well

Shane Pearlman: 1st time user experience?

SikhNerd: What if UX team focused on making all the features of redmine more accessible, obvious, intuitive to end-users. Eric's built-in help idea would go along way

Eric Davis: Shane: a have a client who just asked for % done by status. And he's running that version also :)

SikhNerd: Eric: Both

SikhNerd: but more end-user

Eric Davis: Redmine developer, Administrator, End User

SikhNerd: Plan.io has a plugin that does some of this

SikhNerd: adds a box to the top of every page with tips

SikhNerd: it's not complete, but covers a lot of stuff

SikhNerd: sign up for plan.io free account :P

SikhNerd: works for me

SikhNerd: it's also my goals for the end-user documentation as well

Eric Davis: "Making Redmine accessible, obvious, and intutive to end-users."

SikhNerd: Public Relations

SikhNerd: Internal UX team discussion/exploration -> Open issue on redmine.org that has a status different then others "UX Team Decision" -> work with dev team to implement.

Eric Davis: Shane - UX teams gets in and helps review new features. (e.g. New panel in Dev and UX reviews it to make sure it's usability)

Shane Pearlman: t-shirt size - sm - m - l?

Shane Pearlman: sm = tiny change, just do it and either submit patch or ask dev to - make an issue

Shane Pearlman: m = tell other groups we want to tackle a feature, coordinate

Shane Pearlman: l = significant overhaul or new feature, core group meetings, discuss

SikhNerd: JPL accepted their latest patches and committed them on the same day

Eric Davis: Shane - PR goal for this year to get more developers.

SikhNerd: Shane - 100% Agreed.

Eric Davis: Shane - Wordpress gives credibility to their contributors.

Eric Davis: Shane - larger issues (like first time UX) should be reviewed, but smaller issues could be fixed easier.

SikhNerd: There are 3-4 people on the forums interested in helping with UI

zanuda13: yeh thats what i was refering to

SikhNerd: for reals, subtasking in trunk is sitll confusing

Shane Pearlman: developers should let ux group know what features they are working on, so that ux group can be involved in tasks that have active developer support

Shane Pearlman: question - is there a nightly build living somewhere?

Shane Pearlman: on huroku?

SikhNerd: I have a demo site that I update every 3 days

zanuda13: from the trunk?

SikhNerd: yeah

zanuda13: i did not know that trunk is that stable now

SikhNerd: it's *mostly* stable

SikhNerd: but it's always useable/functional

zanuda13: good to know

Eric Davis: SikhNerd: want to use yours or should I setup one?

SikhNerd: either way is fine

SikhNerd: I update mine manually, but I'm pretty regular

SikhNerd: I don't purge the data though

SikhNerd: if it's just for UX team type stuff feel free to use mine, or I can give you full access to mine

Eric Davis: I can script it

SikhNerd: Joomla does it a bit differently

SikhNerd: and is also successful

Shane Pearlman: true

Shane Pearlman: how?

SikhNerd: The main part is overides

SikhNerd: there is the "core" and you can overide any of the html/css/etc in the theme

Shane Pearlman: I think that changing the default theme is a all hands core issue

SikhNerd: No I meant the "Joomla-way" of themeing is based on there being a core output, and themes override the core output. If I have a folder in my theme /themes/themename/html/footer/ Joomla will output whats in that folder and not what's in the "core"

SikhNerd: aka Overrides :)

SikhNerd: There is no problem having Themes and Plugins tied to point-releases

SikhNerd: every major OSS does this

Shane Pearlman: agreed

zanuda13: i agree as well

SikhNerd: Plugin/Theme Directory will *have* to include tieing to specific version

Eric Davis: Shane - redesigning the default theme and building a better theme arch are important but need buy in from all of the core teams. Next DevMeeting.

SikhNerd: +1

Eric Davis: 1) our goar  "Making Redmine accessible, obvious, and intutive to end-users." 2) work with other teams as needed on tiny, small, and large improvements 3) revisit theme updates later

SikhNerd: #337?

SikhNerd: OH

zanuda13: 337 is delayed till 1.1 is not it?

Eric Davis: http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/roadmap

SikhNerd: at DevMeeting0 we agreed to have a Logo Contest BEFORE 1.0

SikhNerd: ^^^

Shane Pearlman: Eric suggested new statuses: pending documentation review, pending ux review

Shane Pearlman: or maybe tags

SikhNerd: May 14th 1300 UTC

SikhNerd: yeah we scheduled the sceond one earlier than 1 month so we can get our bearings

SikhNerd: 1 hour earlier than last one

SikhNerd: is this group gonna run the Logo Contest?

Eric Davis: I need to get the UX demo up

Eric Davis: I need to spike on the Logo contest.

Eric Davis: Igor and Shane to try out the UX on Subtasks

Eric Davis: Eric to highlight issues that need UI/UX help

Eric Davis: Shane and Igor to review subtask UI on Tues (open to all)

Eric Davis: #443

Eric Davis: ah, not IRC :P

SikhNerd: heh

Eric Davis: http://www.redmine.org/issues/443

SikhNerd: I asked JPL for permission to be able to edit issues/forums and he gave it to me yesterday

SikhNerd: I vote wiki page

SikhNerd: Same format as Devmeetings

Eric Davis: +1

SikhNerd: I'll take that task of setting that up on the wiki

SikhNerd: Sure

SikhNerd: Thanks all, ttyl. Eric -> I'll catch you on IRC with creds to Trunk demo site

Shane Pearlman: Thanks all - nice chatting

zanuda13: yeh thanks all

Eric Davis: Thanks all

Shane Pearlman: Muntek, I was so hoping you would say one really deep comment out loud right at the end

Shane Pearlman: like silent bob

Eric Davis: SikhNerd: how about if I setup a new one on Heroku and give out access to it?

SikhNerd: Eric: whatever is easier for you

Eric Davis: I have scripts for Heroku setups

SikhNerd: k, go nuts :)

SikhNerd: Shane: haha

Shane Pearlman: l8t

Eric Davis: There's also a UI category, might be useful to check for work here for now. http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/issues?query_id=83

SikhNerd: yeah I went through those over the weekend, over 80% are pure feature requests

SikhNerd: only a handful I found to be useful

Eric Davis: k